1 3 2   JUSTICE TRENDS //  J U N E / J U N I O 2 0 1 7 J U N E / J U N I O 2017 JUSTICE TRENDS //  1 3 3 empezar a educarles porque posiblemente nunca fueron educados y sobretodo darles un oficio que los tenga entretenidos, algo que les genere dinero porque la mayoría de los que delinquen lo hacen por dinero. Entonces lo que debemos nosotros buscar es que tengan esa oportunidad de empleo. El mayor reto que veo es conseguir a los maestros y conseguir a los empleadores porque nadie se va a acercar por el tema de la confianza. JT: En términos de cooperación internacional ¿qué tipo de apoyo Guatemala quisiera obtener? RG: Creo que ese apoyo que nos están dando es y ha sido el ideal porque nos han dado el patrocinio económico – porque capacitar costó dinero – eso lo tenemos claro; la construcción del centro para madres – que nos está patro- cinando SEJUST – más protocolos de actuación dentro del nuevo sistema y, adicional, una plataforma tecnológica en la que se empiece por primera vez, a ingresar el expediente de los privados de libertad para que tengamos la claridad de cuando empieza y termina el computo de su pena (porque a la fecha no lo sabemos con claridad o posiblemente lo sepa el privado de libertad, pero no lo sabe el sistema penitenciario). Estos son los patrocinios idóneos que nos están funcionando, no pensaría en otro en este momento porque empezamos a tener resultados de los apoyos que vamos viniendo a tener. Lo fantástico de las personas que vinieron con la cooperación es que no solamente nos dieron dinero sino que vinieron con su personal técnico y así estamos enfocados en que cada centavo se invierte en lo que va a tener, en el futuro, resultados positivos para las personas que están detenidas en los centros penitenciarios. En una supervisión en un centro penitenciario – que es el COF – Centro de Orientación Femenina – hemos estando revisando los expedientes y se concluyó que no constaba la información necesaria, ni la sentencia, ni el computo de la pena, entonces el expediente en realidad es bastante inútil y lo que documenta no nos sirve. Hicimos el acercamiento para empezar a documentar la información de que necesitamos para empezar a hacer más eficiente el sistema. Esto también es resultado del apoyo que hemos estado teniendo y que espero que nos sigan apoyando y dando seguimiento. JT: Los desafíos son innúmeros especialmente cuando se trata de poner en práctica un documento extenso que dice respecto a un total cambio de paradigma, siendo que en el sistema tradicional vigente los canales de comunicación y la veracidad de la información son muy falibles… ¿En qué estado de avance se encuentra la implementación de las primeras medidas reformatorias? RG: Esosproblemasdelafaltadelainformacióncorrectacontinúan, enrealidad,peroestamosempezandoamejorar.Paraadministrareste cambio de modelo de gestión penitenciaria, se creó administrativa y financieramente, desde el Ministerio de Gobernación, una unidad que tenga poder financiero y poder de control para administrar el personal que está trabajando en este nuevo modelo. LATIN AMERICA / AMERICA LATINA This is the kind of support that is working for us, I wouldn’t think about another in this moment because we are starting to have results of the support we are having. The fantastic thing about the people that came with the cooperation is that they not just gave us money but they also came with their technical staff and this way we were focused on that each cent was invested and that we are going to have, in the future, positive results for the people that are detained in the penitentiary centers. In a supervision of a penitentiary system – which is the COF – Feminine Orientation Center – he have revised the records and concluded that the necessary information was missing, nor the sentence, nor the punishment count, then the record is really pretty useless and what it documents does not serve us. We made the approach to start documenting the information we need to start making the system more efficient. This is also the result of the support that we have been having and I hope that they keep supporting and monitoring us. JT: The challenges are innumerable especially when it comes to putting into practice an extensive document that gives a complete shift in paradigm, given that in the current traditional system the communication channels and the veracity of the information are very fallible... In what state of progress is the implementation of the first reformatory measures? RG: These problems with the lack of correct information continue, actually, but we are starting to get better. To administrate this change of penitentiary management model administratively and financially, from the Ministry of Government, a unit was created that has the financial power and the power of control to administrate the personnel that is working in the new model. An uneasiness that the representative of theAmerican Government in Guatemala had was that if we were supportive of the implementation of this new policy with new management and new personnel, but what were we going to do with the prison guards that we had to change this mentality, to change that methodology and to face the excessive corruption installed in the old system? I told him two things that we are about to do: we are starting to select small groups of guards who we will capacitate to work according to the operation protocol of the new model, we did this in small centers; additionally, their salaries were improved last year, because another of the claim was that they had a hunger salary, and it is true; and, additionally, something we observed to be a real weakness is something that does not allow at all to generate administrative purifying, it that internal sanctions’regulation does not exist in the penitentiary system, so that someone (a guard) that is caught entering alcoholic drinks or anything else that generates disorder inside the prison is consigned, and the judge gives him freedom and the other day he will come to work because this is not regularised even though this creates a lot of disorder. The system, the team of this office, has been supported by making an internal regulation, the technical team of the penitentiary system was moved so that they could say what changes they needed and it is now about to be implemented. Aslongasasanctioningsystemdoesnotexist,thiswillbeananarchy. que las personas procesadas que no hayan cometido un delito grave o que no vayan a poner en riesgo la vida de otras personas, y si pueden continuar trabajando pues primero siempre es útil seguir su vida mientras el proceso avanza, segundo no genera más carga al Estado y no suma en este hacinamiento que ya no es controlable en nuestro país. Cualquier cosa podría pasar... vivimos contantemente en una agonía y precisamente estas otras medidas que sirven a desahogar el sistema penitenciario van a ser bienvenidas. La discusión sigue siendo sobre la cuestión económica. La ley dice que el procesado que pueda pagar pagará [los dispositivos de control telemático], el que no puede pagar se hará cargo el Estado. No nos dijeron esa parte pero estamos evaluando entre los posibles proveedores – que son una docena – cuáles van a ser los precios para saber cuál sería el impacto financiero que generaría en este Ministerio. JT: El apoyo de organismos externos ha sido muy importante en el pasado y sigue siéndolo actualmente. Pero hay críticas que son frecuentes cuanto a la debilidad institucional en Guatemala y en otros países en la región. ¿Cómo piensa que se pueden ultrapasar esas debilidades con el objetivo de garantizar que los cambios en el sistema penitenciario sean sostenibles en el futuro? RG: El patronato es fundamental... Creo que el nuevo modelo penitenciario puede permanecer en el tiempo en la medida que empecemos a mostrar resultados de la implementación de la política de reforma de acuerdo con lo que nos muestran los dominicanos – ellos afortunadamente han permanecido en el tiempo. Desde los puestos que ocupamos lo que tenemos que hacer es correr para empezar a dar resultados, desde ese momento vamos a encontrar el patrocinio de todos estos órganos externos, de sociedad civil y de cooperaciones que van a querer continuar la inversión. Entre otras cooperaciones también esta SEJUST que nos está patrocinando en centros para madres [privadas de libertad] acompañadas con niños de 0 a 4 años y estamos por inaugurar a mediados de este ano un espacio para 40 madres. De nuevo, se va a inaugurar con personal del nuevo modelo penitenciario. Es la combinación del cambio del modelo y de la metodología, de conseguir que las personas si tengan educación y trabajo porque en la medida que tengan educación y trabajo significa que estamos llevando por primera vez la oportunidad que posiblemente no tuvieron afuera; la idea debería de ser, más que reeducarles, LATIN AMERICA / AMERICA LATINA no longer controllable in our country. Anything could happen… We constantly live in agony and exactly these measures that serve to relieve the penitentiary system will be welcome. The discussion continues being about the economic question.The law says that the processed that can pay will pay them (the telematic control devices), one who cannot pay will be provided for by the state. We haven’t been told that part but we were evaluating different providers – which are a dozen – which would be the prices to know what impact it would generate on this Ministry. JT: The support of external organisms has been very important in the past and it still is currently. But there are critics that are frequent regarding the institutional weakness in Guatemala and other countries in the region. How do you think these weaknesses could be overcome in order to guarantee that the changes in the penitentiary system will be sustainable in the future? RG: The Patronate is fundamental… I believe the new penitentiary model could remain in time as we begin to show results of the implementation of the reform policy according to what the dominicans show us – they fortunately have remained in time. From the positions that we occupy what we have to do is to run to start giving results, from that moment we will find the sponsorship of all these external bodies, civil society and cooperation that will want to continue the investment.Among other cooperations, there’s SEJUST that is sponsoring us in centers for mothers [deprived of liberty] accompanied by children from 0 to 4 years old, and we are about to inaugurate a facility for 40 mothers by the middle of this year. Again, it is going to inaugurate with personnel of the new penitentiary model. It is the combination of the change of the model and the methodology, of getting the people to have an education and work because as far as they have an education and work it means that we are bringing them an opportunity that they did not have outside; the idea should be, more than to reeducate, to start educating them because possibly they were never educated and above all to give them a job that has them entertained, something to generate money because the majority of delinquents does it for money. So what we must look for is that they have this opportunity to work. The biggest challenge is to get the teachers and to get the employers because nobody is going to get close to us because of the trust issue. JT: In terms of international cooperation, what type of support would Guatemala like to obtain? RG: I think this support that we are being given is and has been ideal because we have been given economical support – because capacitating costs money – that we are clear on; the construction of the center for mothers – which is backed by SEJUST – more operation protocols within the new system, and, additionally, a technological platform in which for the first time we started to enter the files of the inmates to be clear on when the count of the sentence starts and finishes (because nowadays we do not clearly know or the inmate possibly knows but the penitentiary system doesn’t).